把你的員工擺在第一位

Put Your Employees First
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HCL技術公司執行長文尼.納雅解釋,倒轉管理金字塔如何促成卓越的組織績效。更多資訊,請閱讀《員工第一,顧客第二》。

莎拉.葛林:歡迎收看《哈佛商業評論》IdeaCast。我是《哈佛商業評論》的莎拉.葛林,今天的來賓文尼.納雅是HCL執行長,著有《員工第一,顧客第二:顛覆傳統管理》。文尼,非常感謝你今天來上節目。

文尼.納雅:很謝謝你邀請我來。

莎拉.葛林:我認為,在談論員工第一之前,必須先解決一些合理的懷疑,也就是很多員工一再聽到一些空洞的口號,像是「員工是我們最重要的資產」等,心中會有疑慮。你如何克服這種疑慮?

文尼.納雅:我認為,這本書就是要解決這種疑慮。我想我們已經有太多口號,太多人把它們放在價值聲明中,卻什麼也沒做。這本書是關於如何讓員工成為真正的價值,如何把公司建立在員工和顧客之間的界面地帶。因此,把員工擺在首位,並讓管理層對員工負責,這就能提升價值區的價值好多倍。

莎拉.葛林:讓我們也談談第二部分,顧客的部分,把顧客擺在第二位。但其實是顧客付帳單的,你有什麼好理由要把他們擺在第二位?

文尼.納雅:我想這很有趣,因為就顧客利益來說,你必須明白,不是由執行長等主管創造價值,而是由員工來創造價值。去看看印度的航空公司、新加坡航空公司或美國航空公司。你就能看出當中差異,員工真正創造的東西的差異,第一線員工造成的差異。那麼管理層的工作,或主管的工作應該是什麼?應該是照顧員工。

文尼.納雅:我認為若要落實,第一件事就是我所謂的照鏡子。老實說你必須照照鏡子,看看自己在哪裡。你必須轉型。你一旦做出要轉型的決定,就必須想出非傳統的轉型想法。其中一個非傳統的想法,就是員工第一,因為你發現,他們是真正創造價值的人。一旦你做出這個決定,就會倒轉組織金字塔,讓你自己和你的主管同事,對員工所在的價值區負責,讓那些能促進這件事的職能,如人力資源、財務、行政等,對員工負責。

莎拉.葛林:那麼請告訴我們,你如何在HCL落實這個想法。

文尼.納雅:整個組織都專注於員工所在的價值區,這樣你就可以極大化價值區所提供的價值。你如何讓人們負起責任?不是透過發表聲明,而是例如進行360度問卷調查。我的360度調查由55,000名員工完成,並發布在網路上,供所有員工查看。一旦你執行反向當責制,一旦你突破信任的界限,但又擴大透明度的範圍,並建立信任,我想你就會開始看到,員工開始為你的企業帶來重大的轉型價值。

莎拉.葛林:讓我們再談談倒轉管理金字塔,以及倒轉當責制。領導人在這種組織中的作用是什麼?是否還有我們所理解的傳統領導人?

文尼.納雅:我想如果你回顧歷史,看看甘地、曼德拉和馬丁路德,他們所做的就是展示鏡子給你看,然後說這不是個好的處境,對吧?他們讓你看清內心的不滿。他們讓你看清未來,這被稱為明天的浪漫。你喜歡明天的願景。然後你的內心發生變化。因此,你引發了從A點移動到B點的革命。

今日的領導人站在所有人前面,彷彿是在打仗。我認為,明日的領導人必須站在人們的背後,為他們帶來內心的轉變,這樣他們才能看到明天的願景,不滿意自己今日的情況,並做出改變,而不是由領導人來帶頭進行。領導人應該引發他們內心的改變,而這種轉變是可以長久維繫的轉變,可持續到執行長的任期之後。

莎拉.葛林:讓我們談談你提到的另一件事情,透明度。透明度對於把員工放在第一位有多重要?在你領導HCL時,這對你意味著什麼?

文尼.納雅:我認為,缺乏透明度可見於整個華爾街,這就是發生的情況。我認為,我們在經濟衰退期間對待員工的方式,讓他們身處不確定性之中,沒有恰當對待他們,裁員卻沒有適當溝通,沒有採取適當的人性化行為,這會在未來某段時間讓我們嚐到苦果,因為員工與管理層之間的信任,是成功的關鍵因素。你如何建立信任?若要建立信任,就必須推動你和員工之間關係的透明度。

無論是差勁的決定或好的決定,你都必須保持透明。你必須對此保持透明。只有推動透明度,才能建立信任。一旦建立信任,你就可以做任何事情。但如果這種信任不存在,就像它在今天的商業環境中不存在,對吧?很多人目前並不相信企業領導人推動的事情、企業界發生的事情,這是過去兩年發生的那些事情導致的。我認為,企業如果能夠與顧客、員工好好交流,建立可信賴的伙伴關係,績效將會遠勝過其他沒有這樣做的企業。你如何建立信任?透過擴展對他們的透明程度。

莎拉.葛林:在這種組織中,員工、第一線主管的責任是什麼?

文尼.納雅:我想我們很容易問出這個問題。我們不該問這個,因為最終,Y世代的所有人都想要工作。因此,詢問你的責任是什麼,我認為這是錯誤的問題。我們身為今日的領導人,職責就是灌輸他們、鼓勵他們、激發他們、讓他們接受某個願景。如果他們在企業裡,就會完全沉浸在那個願景中,努力朝某個方向前進,因為他們相信它。看看世界上任何的革命,都是因為人們相信某個願景。無論是對是錯,他們都帶來一種變化,人們有50%在這裡,50%在那裡,他們被稱為工人。你需要有責任,我也需要有責任,他們都需要有責任,結果我們沒有 共同執行任何事情。

莎拉.葛林:你認為,在組織中實施這些想法,最困難的部分是什麼?

文尼.納雅:最難的是相信自己不是無所不知。相信世界上存在更聰明的人是沒關係的。相信未來的答案不應該來自經理人和執行長,而應該來自整個組織。相信命令與指揮的組織經營方式不會奏效,如果我們相信管理自己國家時的民主價值觀,而且我們大肆宣揚這樣的價值觀。我們最好把民主引進整個組織中。相信的方式就是讓自己承擔責任。讓自己敞開心扉接受評估,就能釋放力量來改造你的公司,這是你前所未見的。

莎拉.葛林:但就現實而言,分散企業的決策權是否存在一些風險?

文尼.納雅:我想這是個好問題。組織必須決定何時轉型。大多數情況下,組織會放慢速度,甚至到死都沒有注意到轉型時機已到來。如果你在賽車比賽中領先其他所有人,你就不必把員工擺在第一位。但是我們大多數人並沒有在賽車比賽中領先,而是正好在中間位置。在這種時候,如果你有一點構想,如果你是Google、你是MySpace、你是蘋果公司,那很好。你不必做任何其他事情。

但對於其他正在尋找轉型構想的人來說,產品構想和服務構想並不存在,那麼員工至上這個構想,可以讓你為企業員工挹注信任,就像我們在HCL做的那樣。在經濟衰退期間年成長率達21%。顧客滿意度提高41%。員工滿意度在亞洲排名第一,也是美國《商業週刊》關注的五家企業之一。這一切都發生在經濟衰退期間,只因為我們決定利用員工至上來轉型。

莎拉.葛林:這是很有力的構想。文尼,非常感謝你今天來上節目。

文尼.納雅:非常謝謝你。

莎拉.葛林:這是我們今天的嘉賓文尼.納雅,HCL執行長和《員工第一,顧客第二》的作者。更多資訊請造訪hbr.org。

(劉純佑譯)


Sarah Green: Welcome to the Harvard Business IdeaCast. I'm Sarah Green from Harvard Business Review and I am joined today by Vineet Nayer, CEO of HCL Technologies, and the author of Employees First, Customer Second: Turning Conventional Management Upside Down. Vineet, thank you so much for talking with us today.

Vineet Nayar: Thank you so much for inviting me.

Sarah Green: I don't think we can talk about putting employees first without addressing some of the legitimate skepticism that I think a lot of employees feel after hearing over and over again so many empty slogans like “ our people are our greatest asset.” How do you overcome that skepticism?

Vineet Nayar: I think the book is to address that skepticism. I think we have too many slogans, too many people putting them in the value statement and doing nothing about it. This book is about how employees are the real value and the company being created in the interface of the employees and the customer. And therefore, by putting employees first and making the management accountable to the employee, you can actually enhance the value in the value zone multiple times.

Sarah Green: Well then let's talk a little bit about the second part, also, the customer part, putting the customer second, because I mean the customers pay the bills. So how do you justify putting them second?

Vineet Nayar: I think it's interesting because in the interest of the customer you have to realize that it's not the management of the CEO who's creating value. It is the employees who are creating value. Go to an Indian airline, go to Singapore airline, and go to an American airline. You can know the difference between what the employees really created, the difference on the ground. So what should be the business of management or the business of managers? Should be taking care of the employees.

Sarah Green: Well tell us then a little bit about how you put this into practice at HCL.

Vineet Nayar: I think to put it in practice, the first thing is that, what I call, mirror-mirror. You honestly have to look in the mirror and seeing where you are. You have to transform. Once you take a decision that you have to transform, then you have to come with unconventional ideas of how to transform. One of the unconventional ideas is by putting employees first, because you realize that they are the true value creators. Once you take that decision then you invert the organization pyramid by making yourself and your management colleagues accountable to that value zone where the employees are, making the enabling functions, like HR, finance, administration, accountable to the employees.

So that the entire organization is focused towards that value zone there the employees located so that you can maximize the value delivered by the value zone. How do you make accountability? Not by making statement, but, for example, doing a 360-degree survey. My 360degree survey is done by 55,000 employees and is published on the web for all employees to see. So once you do reverse accountability, once you push the envelope of trust, but push the envelope of transparency and create the trust, I think you would start seeing employee first started delivering significant transformation value for your business.

Sarah Green: Let's talk a little bit more about inverting the management pyramid and reverse accountability. What is the role of the leader in this kind of organization? Do you still have what we understand of as a traditional leader?

Vineet Nayar: I think if you go back to history and look at Gandhi and Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King, what they did was they showed you the mirror and said that this is not a good position to be in, right? They cleared the dissatisfaction within you. They cleared to the mirror for the future, which is called the romance of tomorrow. You like the vision of tomorrow. And then inside you the change happened. Because of it you caused the revolution of moving from point A to point B.

The leaders of today are right in front as if were fighting a war. I think the leaders of tomorrow have to be behind the people to bring about the transformation inside those people so that they can see the vision of tomorrow, get unhappy with their today, and make the change rather than the leader leading the way. Leaders should make that change in their heart, and that transformation is everlasting transformation, which will last beyond the tenure of the CEO.

Sarah Green: Let's talk about something else you mentioned, transparency. How important is transparency to the effort of putting employees first? And what does that mean to you when you are leading HCL?

Vineet Nayar: I think the lack of transparency you can see all over Wall Street, what happened. I think the way we treated our employees during recession, putting them in zones and uncertainty, not treating them properly, distributing pink slips without proper communication and proper human behavior, is going to come and bite us over a period of time, because it is the trust between the employees and the management which is a critical ingredient for success. How do you create the trust? You create the trust by pushing transparency in your relationship between you and your employees.

Bad decisions or good decisions, you have to be transparent. You have to be transparent about it. Only by pushing the envelope of transparency do you create the trust. And once you create the trust, then you can do anything. But if that trust quotient does not exist, as it does not exist in a business environment today, right? A lot of people do not trust what is happening with the business leaders, what is happening businesses after what has happened in last two years. I think companies which will engage their customers, their customers, their employees, with trusted partnership relationship will far outperform anybody else who's not doing it. And how do you create trust? Push the envelope of transparency with them.

Sarah Green: What is the responsibility of the employees, the front line managers, in this kind of organization?

Vineet Nayar: I think it's a very easy question to ask. We should not ask that question, because in the end, every single person in Generation Y wants to come to work. And therefore, to ask the question what is your responsibility I think is the wrong question. It is our job as leaders of today to infuse them, to encourage them, to excite them, to get them to buy into a vision. And if they are in the company, they're fully inboard in the vision, driving towards a certain direction because they believe in it. Look at any revolution across the world where people believe in a vision. Rightly or wrongly they have brought about a change where people are 50% here and 50% there, they're called job workers. You need to have responsibility and I need to have responsibility, both of them need to have responsibility so that we do nothing together.

Sarah Green: What do you think is hardest part of implementing these ideas in an organization?

Vineet Nayar: Believing that you do not have all the answers. Believing that it is OK for brighter people to exist in the world. Believing that the future answers should not come from the managers and the CEOs, but should come from the organization. Believing that the command and control way of running organizations will not work if we believe in democratic values in running our countries, and we preach a lot about that. We better bring democracy in our whole organization. And believing by opening yourself to accountability. By opening yourself to evaluation you unleash a power to transform your company which you have never seen before.

Sarah Green: But realistically, isn't there some risk and decentralizing the decision-making power in the company?

Vineet Nayar: I think good question. An organization has to decide when to transform. Most of the time the organization slow down and die without even noticing that the time for transformation has come. So if you're in the car race and you are ahead of everybody else, you don't need to do employee first. But most of us are not ahead in the car race, we are right in the middle. At that particular time, if you have a bit of an idea -- you're a Google, your're a MySpace, you're an Apple, that's fine. You don't need to go do anything else.

But for the others who are searching for ideas for transform, where products ideas and services ideas and not there, employee first is an idea where you can infuse the employees and trust from your company as we have done in HCL. So 21% growth year on year during recession. 41% increase in customer satisfaction. Number one employee satisfaction in Asia and also one of the five companies to be noticed by Business Week. All this during recession only because we're decided to transform using employee first.

Sarah Green: It's a powerful idea. Vineet, thank you so much for joining us today.

Vineet Nayar: Thank you so much.

Sarah Green: That was Vineet Nayar, CEO of HCL, and the book is Employees First, Customers Second. For more go to hbr.org.



本篇文章主題管理員工